Why does God allow natural disasters?

[eqock]

Kalian semua keknya udah pada denger soal bencana di Haiti (meskipun belum ada artikelnya di forum ini), ini ada beberapa artikel menarik: (sori pake bahasa inggris)

Why does God allow natural disasters?




At the heart of Haiti's humanitarian crisis is an age old question for many religious people - how can God allow such terrible things to happen? Philosopher David Bain examines the arguments.
Evil has always been a thorn in the side of those - of whatever faith - who believe in an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good God.
As the philosopher David Hume (echoing Epicurus) put it in 1776: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?"
Faced with this question, Archbishop of York John Sentamu said he had "nothing to say to make sense of this horror", while another clergyman, Canon Giles Fraser, preferred to respond "not with clever argument but with prayer".

I have nothing to say that makes sense of this horror - all I know is that the message of the death and resurrection of Jesus is that he is with us


Archbishop of York, John Sentamu

Perhaps their stance is understandable. The Old Testament is also not clear to the layman on such matters. When Job complains about the injuries God has allowed him to suffer, and claims "they are tricked that trusted", God says nothing to rebut the charges.
Less reticent is the American evangelist Pat Robertson. He has suggested Haiti has been cursed ever since the population swore a pact with the Devil to gain their freedom from the French at the beginning of the 19th Century. Robertson's claim will strike many as ludicrous, if not offensive.
And even were it true, it wouldn't obviously meet the challenge.
Why would a loving deity allow such a pact to seem necessary? Why wouldn't he have freed the Haitians from slavery himself, or prevented them from being enslaved in the first place? And why, in particular, would he punish today's Haitians for something their forbears putatively did more than two centuries before?
So what should believers say? To make progress, we might distinguish two kinds of evil:

• the awful things people do, such as murder, and
• the awful things that just happen, such as earthquakes

Would those hailed as brave still exist in a Magical World?

St Augustine, author CS Lewis and others have argued God allows our bad actions since preventing them would undermine our free will, the value of which outweighs its ill effects.
But there's a counter-argument. Thoroughly good people aren't robots, so why couldn't God have created only people like them, people who quite freely live good lives?
However that debate turns out, it's quite unclear how free will is supposed to explain the other kind of evil - the death and suffering of the victims of natural disasters.
Perhaps it would if all the victims - even the newborn - were so bad that they deserved their agonising deaths, but it's impossible to believe that is the case.
Or perhaps free will would be relevant if human negligence always played a role. There will be some who say the scale of the tragedy in natural disasters is partly attributable to humans. The world has the choice to help its poorer parts build earthquake-resistant structures and tsunami warning systems.
A still smoking Krakatoa in 1883, which caused a devastating tsunami


But the technology has not always existed. Was prehistoric man, with his sticks and stones, somehow negligent in failing to build early warning systems for the tsunamis that were as deadly back then as they are today?
The second century saint, Irenaeus, and the 20th Century philosopher, John Hick, appeal instead to what is sometimes called soul-making. God created a universe in which disasters occur, they think, because goodness only develops in response to people's suffering.
To appreciate this idea, try to imagine a world containing people, but literally no suffering. Call it the Magical World. In that world, there are no earthquakes or tsunamis, or none that cause suffering. If people are hit by falling masonry, it somehow bounces off harmlessly. If I steal your money, God replaces it. If I try to hurt you, I fail.
So why didn't God create the Magical World instead of ours? Because, the soul-making view says, its denizens wouldn't be - couldn't be - truly good people.
It's not that they would all be bad. It's that they couldn't be properly good. For goodness develops only where it's needed, the idea goes, and it's not needed in the Magical World.
In that world, after all, there is no danger that requires people to be brave, so there would be no bravery. That world contains no one who needs comfort or kindness or sympathy, so none would be given. It's a world without moral goodness, which is why God created ours instead.
But there is wiggle room.
Even in a world where nothing bad happens, couldn't there be brave people - albeit without the opportunity to show it? So moral goodness could exist even if it were never actually needed.
And, anyway, suppose we agree moral goodness could indeed develop only in a world of suffering.
Doesn't our world contain a surplus of suffering? People do truly awful things to each other. Isn't the suffering they create enough for soul-making? Did God really need to throw in earthquakes and tsunamis as well?
Suffering's distribution, not just its amount, can also cause problems. A central point of philosopher Immanuel Kant's was that we mustn't exploit people - we mustn't use them as mere means to our ends. But it can seem that on the soul-making view God does precisely this. He inflicts horrible deaths on innocent earthquake victims so that the rest of us can be morally benefitted.
That hardly seems fair.
It's OK, some will insist, because God works in mysterious ways. But mightn't someone defend a belief in fairies by telling us they do too? Others say their talk of God is supposed to acknowledge not the existence of some all-powerful and all-good agent, who created and intervenes in the universe, but rather something more difficult to articulate - a thread of meaning or value running through the world, or perhaps something ineffable.
But, as for those who believe in an all-good, all-powerful agent-God, we've seen that they face a question that remains pressing after all these centuries, and which is now horribly underscored by the horrors in Haiti. If a deity exists, why didn't he prevent this?
David Bain is a lecturer in the philosophy department of the University of Glasgow.
Below is a selection of your comments.
As an Anglican, I always had presumed that God is too big, if you like, too omnipotent to even vaguely notice humanity, after all we are dust: "from dust you are made and to dust you shall return". Though the thought of that kind of horror being suffered by many innocents - and an apparent loving God is contradicting. However at least I find comfort, and probably most Christians, in the world to come where everything would be good, If you like God repaying his debts for letting us suffer.
Dan, Hampshire
The reason why good does not reduce suffering and evil in the world is simply because he does not exist! Or if he does he does not care about humans at least on a individual basis, I am not sure he cares about them on a species basis. Why does he not look after all the animal species that are facing extinction? Evolution explains must of human behaviour and geology and physics explains most natural disasters. If God intervened, there would be evidence. He would have to thwart the laws of physics or/warn people.
John O'Toole, Sligo Ireland
God made man as his greatest creation. In order for humans to be all they can be we must live in a world like this one. Moral courage can't just be a potentiality, it must be an actuality in all it's complexity for it to mean anything. Also, in order for the world to be able to create and sustain the complexity of life that it has, the crust of the earth must move, must regenerate itself. Thus, earthquakes, tsunamis. All religious people can do in the face of a catastrophe is to do what we can to alleviate the suffering and possibly create a world where these sorts of things have much less impact. Isn't the real tragedy of Haiti the poverty that has blighted the island, that lead to substandard buildings and poor infrastructure? This is as much a man-made disaster as divine.
Matthew Thomas, Cattleford
This is a transient life, the real life will come later. We as humans have got a warped sense about what this life means to us, we ignore the reality of the next world. So if your time is up and you die hopefully you were on the path of doing good. There is a story of Khizer & Moses, when the former kills a child and Moses is aghast. Khizer tells him that the child would have grown up and killed his parents for greed. So if Khizer knows that how can we question God when children pass away. As the article also points out, it's a test for the rest of us to see how we respond to the suffering of others. Maybe we can learn to look after the old folks in the neighbourhood when we are moved to help people as far away as Haiti?
Kaz, Ellicott City, USA
Debating the intentions of a mythological character which allegedly has an interest in allowing 'bad' things to happen on planet earth? Are we living in the 21st century or the 12th century ? Natural disasters, disease, accidents and co-incidences are all things that occur naturally and not as the result of the will of any fantastical all powerful Monster. Maybe a comet will hit the earth one day and maybe all that will be left will be a copy of Dr. Dolittle. Just because somebody wrote it down does not make it true.
Andrew Connor, Uxbridge
Perhaps you should include non god-based religions to get out of this dilemma. Try Buddhism for example.
Isabelle Clinton, Forest Row, United Kingdom
God has put us in a 'crucible' and he is very interested in how we cope by us invoking the law of love. No one is immune from tragedy, not least his own son Jesus. So, its more about loving our neighbours rather than puzzling why. We live in a dangerous world let no one doubt it. Some disasters are natural but many others are of our own making but throughout we must live the law of love.
Alan Smith, Preston, Lancashire
The Japanese (90% Buddhist) have a saying that pain is our best friend. Because for the most part we learn and grow the most from painful experiences. If we are not born new, but simply coming around for another shot at growth (reincarnation), then the notion of a child being pure is put aside. If pain is our friend, then the notion of pain as cruel is put aside. If death is not the end, then the notion of unfair or untimely death being the worst thing imaginable is put aside.
John Roberts, Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
A thoughtful article on an enduring problem. God is perfectly good and perfectly powerful. Haiti was fully within his control. Why did it happen? Because men's deeds are evil. The Haitians'? Not particularly - see Jesus on the Tower of Siloam - "repent, or you too will perish". Because there are murderers and rapists in the world? Not just them - there is no one good, not even one, all have turned away and fallen short of the glory of God.
Jon Hall, Jacksonville, Florida, USA
This is a very interesting article. It is a classic philosophy question that can never be convincingly answered. This article lists some interesting points. In one part, there is the argument that why can't god just create good people with free will? If god just created good people with free will, it logically follows that all their actions will always be good since they are good people. Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of free will where you can choose your actions as opposed to being restricted only to good actions? It almost feels like an oxymoron to say that we should only have good people with free will. Secondly, in vedic philosophy there is a belief in the continuum of the soul. Many scientific studies and real world experiences show that this could be true. To believe or not is a question for another day. However, if we allow for this continuum then we can easily explain natural disasters (where even innocent babies die) by attributing the punishment to their past lives' actions, also known as Sanchita Karma in Sanskrit. The other answer to the question posed could just be that god's ways are so intricate and complex that to comprehend the greater good out of seemingly painful punishments are just beyond human comprehension. This is one of those questions that we could argue about all day and yet arrive at no answer.
KRL, Old Bridge, New Jersey
Having lost a sister to a brain tumour aged 49, and a close friend to cancer at the age of 30, and being a C of E priest, you might imagine this kind of matter has been a part of my own, and many others' formation. Archbishop Sentamu is right on one level; for the sake of those caught up in this tragedy we need to pray and act now, and think later. But for many of us there has already been much thought. John Polkinghorne and others successfully argue that free will is not just about humanity, it is also about the freedom of the universe to be what it is. It has to 'work' to make sense. In order for life to exist on this planet there simply has to be tectonic activity. Without the 'recycling' processes involved there would be insufficient carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and earth would become a lifeless snowball. It has to be a dynamic system and given the freedom to be what it is. Likewise, without mutation there could be no progressive evolution. Most mutations are dead-ends, some are useful and retained if they provide breeding advantage, and some are deadly. But you cannot have one without another, at least not if you want life. Could God have done it differently? Probably. But then if his hand was that obvious, would we have the freedom to choose whether to seek him out? Probably not. But back to Archbishop Sentamu's sentiments; the importance of what needs to be done now far outweighs the philosophy of why it happened.
Paul, Birmingham

[eqock]

Your thoughts on God and natural disasters


Natural disasters may test faith in God

Why does God allow natural disasters? Philosopher David Bain examined this question in light of Haiti's deadly earthquake - and readers around the world responded thoughtfully.
Earlier this week the Magazine published an article asking Why does God allow natural disasters? It prompted a huge response from readers, with more than 4,000 emails sent in. Here are just some.
Tsunamis and earthquakes are hazards attached to living on a rather large spinning ball of molten magma and iron. It is unlikely that a universe could be created that lacks hazards to its denizens, and so we need a good God to protect us from those hazards. But really, we only want God's help when it suits us, the rest of the time we prefer to tell him to leave us alone and then we wonder why he does.
Matt Parkins, York, UK
To me it seems that Bain's comments reflect a puppet master's version of the world: That God is in there controlling every minute detail of every second of our day. But when I read the creation account in Genesis, I see God giving stewardship of this earth and our lives to us. And even though t's not popular to mention, there's a third player in all of this: an agent for evil who wants to "kill, steal and destroy", according to the Bible. Perhaps the "blame" of natural disasters is a bit more complex than blaming it on the Creator who originally handed us a perfect creation that is now corrupted from its original beauty.
Kim, Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Most religions clearly see life as a test. Natural disasters are clearly part of this test. Why does anything have to be fair? Religious texts largely promise "reward" for good behaviour in this life, but only in the next one.
Richard Clements, Bristol, UK
After thousands of years theologians still cannot come to any real agreement on these fundamental issues and there certainly isn't any official line on such issues from any major monotheistic religion. The only conclusion you can come to is that we do not understand God. Alternatively, in much less time, various scholars from many different cultures have developed a framework that explains far more than any religion has been capable of and we call it science. Science explains natural disasters and why people are nasty to each other. Why not focus on the things we can explain and try to improve our understanding of those rather than waste our time on a problem that we haven't solved in over 2000 years and it doesn't look like we are ever going to get any new information to help us in that task.
Adrian, Basingstoke, UK
Surely there is more method to this madness than meets the eye. We get earthquakes when the earth moves. Tsunamis, too. There is scientific explanation for all of this. As to why it moves, well why not? Would there be not greater catastrophe if it did not? It is tragic when people die, but die we all must.
Kay Aar, Pakistan
As a believer I respect the difficulty that non-believers have with the problem of suffering. In trying to address it, there is always the danger of sounding trite: appearing to minimise what for those involved is awful and real. But to believe in God it is necessary to believe in one with far greater capability than ourselves of making judgements. We assess the suffering that follows a tragedy from our own perspective, not aware of the "big picture" to which God might be privy. Whatever we perceive as defects in the world might look like valid means to an end if seen holistically.
Michael Rowley, Jacksonville, FL, USA
How self-centred to blame God for something that doesn't suit human requirements or causes pain to the human, as if the entire vast universe we live in should suit our needs only. Part of the brilliance of consciousness is that we can learn from and work with nature, overcome difficulties, hardship etc. The evil of Haiti is the history of plunder, torture, slavery and exploitation that prevented humans having the facilities needed to live in a place subject to severe tectonic movement.
Anon, Llandysul, Wales
During tragedy, people often turn to a higher power for strength

Isn't religion all about faith? It's good to question - it's natural in all of us. However, a lot of things can't be explained. We don't know what happens for sure when you die, but those with faith believe in heaven. We can understand the science behind natural disasters, but we can't understand how God would allow it. There is a lot we don't understand. Life itself is a miracle so maybe we need to have a little faith.
Yvonne Booth, London, UK
God gave the world to Adam and Eve and they were in control, yet they failed. They got the knowledge of good and evil and hence, sin entered into the world. The whole earth became cursed. Jesus came to redeem us and God will judge one day for all the evil that was done. Before that, humanity is in control and the earth is still cursed.
S. T. Law, Glasgow, Scotland
These earthquakes, or the chance victims of suicide attacks in my country, point to one thing: the pointlessness of this life. They are a hard knock on the front door of this world by God himself, perhaps to make us realise this world of ours has no walls, it is just in our minds and not worth living for in itself.
Ahmed Hassan, Pakistan
David Bain didn't mention any names for these "thoroughly good people". Feel free to let me know who they are. No Bible I've ever read has said that people are or can be thoroughly good. Humanity has spent its time telling God to get lost, yet complains when he doesn't do something. You can't have it both ways.
Gary Millar, Belfast, Antrim
The thing is, if god is all powerful and knowing, then when he created humans he would have known precisely which would be bad and also what they would do. So why do that? Why knowingly create the bad people who will kill some good people and cause many good people to suffer? Because he doesn't exist. Man needs to believe in god because the human brain can't cope very well believing that there really is no point to it all.
Ian Hughes, London
I think the Christian viewpoint is that God did create this "magical world" where nothing bad happens, i.e. the Garden of Eden. But then humanity chose knowledge of good and evil instead of an eternally good world. This is argued to be why earthquakes, volcanoes etc came to be, as a consequence of this choice. However the question remains: "Why does God allow this to happen now, leaving us to deal with the consequences of an event that supposedly happened at the dawn of time?" To my mind, God has to let the consequences of this choice stand. Otherwise what choice is there if there is no consequence?
Peter, London, UK
Our culture deals with death very badly, relatively. But without death there can be no joy of birth, there would be no room for it. If we are spirit we do not die anyway, it's only our bodies that die. A good Christian would progress to a glorious heaven. Why would an all-powerful deity want to prevent this wonderful outcome? We struggle most with untimely death, especially children's. But if we knew in advance our allotted time here on earth, how would that affect our development, our souls? Without any suffering would we know any joy? Would it have any meaning for us?
Mel Frame, Bangor, Wales
My view is that the Being Beyond Understanding's gift and challenge to us is evolution, not just of the body, but also of the soul. Evolution does not just happen, it requires an event to begin with. The more threatening the event, the more likely the evolution will start or continue. I hope that now with better and faster coverage of these natural disasters, people not directly involved will begin to have more empathy with those that are, will see how small the Earth is and how we are all a part of the same Being Beyond Understanding.
Colin Pickford, Southampton, UK
Some believe charity efforts demonstrate the existence of good

If there is a belief in a God then why not a belief in a devil? It seems that when a natural disaster happens people ask "Why didn't God stop this?". Not many people consider that the devil may have caused it.
Tom, St Austell, UK
According to Buddhism, everything is a result of karma - cause and effect. There is no escaping your karma, every action you do plants a seed which in this or future lives will ripen and you will suffer its effects. Buddha had purified all his karma and escaped the cycle of birth and death due to karma. His teachings try to show us how to do the same - he cannot stop the effects of karma and so cannot stop suffering, but by following his teachings eventually we ourselves can escape the cycle of birth and death and like him become enlightened. Enlightened beings can help others escape the cycle of life and death, but they are not miracle workers and cannot stop the cycle of life and death due to karma - it's up to each and every one of us to do it.
Simon, Herts, UK
With regard to natural disasters, I believe that God is just as distraught and upset as every right-thinking human being on this planet. God will help us through our problems and not over or around them.
Charlie, Dundee, UK
The concept of theodicy is not, in my opinion, a real problem for religion. If there is no bad or evil in the world, then how is one to recognise and appreciate good? If everything is good, then would we value that good in the same way we do now? Catastrophes such as this, although horrific, give ample opportunity for people all over the world to engage in kind, altruistic acts of charity.
Hassan, London, UK
I would like to say that even though Christianity has not come up with a sufficient answer to the problem of evil, nobody has. If nobody has provided a good answer to the badness of evil, then the next question should be "what is the best answer among the insufficient ones?" Christianity provides hope and redemption in the midst of suffering and evil - suffering is not pointless. The centre of Christianity is the fact that God did not isolate himself from suffering and evil but subjected himself to it in order to ultimately defeat it and save those suffering from it. The cross of Christ does not give answers to why evil, pain, suffering, and injustice exist, but for those who believe, it provides hope, redemption, justice and ultimately meaning to both evil and life in general.
Kevin Antlitz, Boston, MA, USA

[siegfrieda]

huah panjang banget artikelnya.. -_- aku lagi males baca. besok tak bacae..
aku inget ada temenku yg bilang. dia baca artikel apa gitu, mungkin yg dimaksud ini..
jadi katanya kenapa sampe ada disaster sedahsyat itu krn di Haiti tu banyak setannya..
lha wong sejak berdiri aja dia gak pernah beres ok..
gak tau ya.. tp menurutku artikel itu terlalu frontal.
but, once again, freedom of presenting ideas..

[T0tZu3_knight]

jadi katanya kenapa sampe ada disaster sedahsyat itu krn di Haiti tu banyak setannya..

hehehe...pendapat aneh yg sering terjadi kalo ada bencana,
termasuk pas lagi ada bencana di Aceh ama Jogja...
manknya manusia tau ada setan ato gak...
hehehehe...

kalo aq pernah baca mahabarata, kalo menurut penangkapan'q, emang perang&bencana kaya udah dirancang gitu,
karena dengan perang&bencana akan terjadi kehancuran,
lalu dari kehancuran bakal muncul sesuatu yg lebih baik... gitu...'

tapi kalo aq ndiri ya takut kalo ada bencana/perang....

[briliano]

pertanyaan di judul thread di atas sungguh filosofis dan sulit untuk dijawab.

katanya Allah adalah kasih? kalau bencana yg terjadi apakah bagian dari kasih juga? *lha entah ya.. aku juga gak ngerti*

kalau paulus bilang tak perlu takut dengan kematian:

"Aku telah mengakhiri pertandingan yang baik, aku telah mencapai garis akhir dan aku telah memelihara iman."
-- II Timotius 4:7

saya mendapat sedikit pencerahan di http://katolisitas.org/2009/11/20/me...n-penderitaan/

[casanova]

pertama tama niat banget bacanya. trus ampe berapa puluh baris jadi mikir, duh bahasanya makin susah dimengerti. trus iseng iseng discrol ke bawah. ternyata masih buanyak banget barisnya. ehhehehe.

related to this topic, sejauh yang aku tahu sih, Tuhan ga pernah bilang hidup di dunia bakal mudah ya. Makanya Dia mengharapkan kita untuk memanggul salib kan di dunia. Yang Dia janjikan kan kehidupan di luar dunia fana ini kalau kita menjalankan ajaran-Nya. Jadi menurut aku Tuhan tidak bertanggung jawab pada apa yang ada di dunia ini. Tuhan itu mempunyai tanggung jawab untuk menyelamatkan manusia yang memang sudah mengikuti ajaran-Nya, tapi keselamatan itu bukan di dunia ini. Kan ada ajaran-Nya, Akulah jalan hidup. Barang siapa mengikuti Aku akan beroleh hidup kekal.

ya itu cuma pendapatku sih. topik ini memang selalu berat. pas di kuliah dulu juga ada pertunjukan musik yang begitu indah dan mengalir. Yang membedakan adalah, yang membawakan iringan musik itu adalah anak anak cacat. kebanyakan mengalami keterbelakangan mental. trus salah satu temenku meneteskan air mata en bilang kok Tuhan tega ya menciptakan mereka.

sungguh topik yang berat.

[casanova]

sori yang ini kepencet 2 x. dihapus aja mod

[njeblug]

ini mah pelajaranku Agama kelas XI kemaren (yg ngajar ter Koko)
ada beberapa poin yg bisa jadi alternatif jawaban untuk masalah 'mengapa ada penderitaan dan kejahatan'.. contoh: penderitaan sebagai pemurnian, penderitaan sebagai ujian, dll dll.. yg mana masing2 ada plus minus sendiri2 (mksdnya, argumen ini kelemahannya tidak bisa menjelaskan X, tp kelebihannya dia bisa menjelaskan Y, dll2).. hehehe
yg aku inget yg kejahatan. kejahatan ada karena Tuhan memberikan free will pada manusia untuk membalas kasih-Nya (di artikel atas juga ada).. kl yg penderitaan terus terang aku agak lupa tuh..